When I was in college, DC Talk recorded a cover of a Larry Norman song: I Wish We'd All Been Ready. I didn't remember the whole song until I looked it up - but the part that's always been stuck in my mind went like this:
A man and wife asleep in bed
She hears a noise and turns her head he's gone
I wish we'd all been ready
Two men walking up a hill
One disappears and one's left standing still
I wish we'd all been ready
There's no time to change your mind
The Son has come and you've been left behind
Obviously the imagery here was drawn from Luke 17:34-36, and it assumes that Jesus was talking to his disciples about some sort of Rapture - where believers were whisked away to heaven - leaving the non-believers behind. And based on this song - as well as much of the teaching I've heard over the years, that's what I assumed the Luke passage was referring to.
But as I re-read the passage this morning, I began to realize that they may be other explanations. Especially since when the disciples point blank asked Jesus "Where" will they be taken - Jesus didn't specify - but merely answered "Where there is a dead body, the vultures will gather."
So what other explanations are there to this passage? Where else could the people be taken to - if not to heaven? Well - one possibility is that the person was taken by some sort of government agency for torture because they were a Christian (insert favorite conspiracy theory here...) Another possibility is that "taken" doesn't refer to a physical snatching away - but merely to death - that one will die - and the other will be left alive. And obvisouly, the Rapture interpretation is certainly valid as well.
Personally, I cannot be sure exactly what Jesus was referring to in this passage - but what I do know - and one thing I do whole-heartedly agree with in the song - is that we should all the ready for that day - whatever happens - that we not turn away - that we not look back to our former life - but that we wait for Christ - doing his will all the time.
In the words of Larry Norman:
I hope we'll all be ready...
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My understanding of what Jesus is referring to, and what Luke is writing about in Luke 17:22-37 is both the time of tribulation and the Second Advent. My understanding is that it does not describe the Rapture, which, I believe, will occur prior to these events. Verse 22 speaks, I believe, of a time when people will long to see the days of the Lord because of the great suffering they are enduring; but they shall not see Him until the Tribulation is finished. Verse 23 speaks of the many imposters that will come, both before and during the time of tribulation. Then verse 24 tells us, as bright and as visible as the lightening, the Lord’s Second Coming will clearly be visible to all to see.
In verses 26-29 Jesus speaks of the judgment of the ungodly in the days of Noah and after Lot and his family left Sodom. Verse 30 tells us the same fate, that of sudden judgment, will befall those non-believers who are upon the earth when He returns at the Second Advent. Verses 31 and 32 remind us not to be concerned about the world and worldly things. We are to keep a watch for His coming; not looking back, as Lot’s wife did, on those things in the world that are of no importance to our spiritual life.
I think verse 33 speaks specifically to the Tribulation. Those who seek to save their lives, by taking the mark of the Beast, for example, will lose their spiritual life. Those who maintain their faith in the Lord and are martyred for His name’s sake, although they may suffer physical death, they will not lose their spiritual life. I believe verses 34-36 speak to the rotundity of the earth. They speak to it being night in part of the earth (“in that night”) and to being day in the rest of the earth (“men shall be in the field”).
I believe the eagles (KJV) spoken of in verse 37 refers to the judgment that will befall all non-believers at the Second Advent (they will be “taken”). Wherever the “body is,” as in non-believers, there judgment (the eagles) will be also. Just as when God shut the door on the ark, or when Lot left Sodom, so shall it be at the Second Advent - too late. Judgment will befall all non-believes and they shall be removed prior to the Millennial reign of Christ. Those who are left will all be believers. And it is this group of believing mortals that will repopulate the earth, and over which Christ, with the aid of the Church, will reign for a thousand years on this earth.
Rob - thanks for your comments. I find it interesting that you believe the "taken" ones will be the non-believers. I've always heard the opposite - but as I re-read the passage, Jesus doesn't specify here - so I think either could be true.
I also like the way you refer to the "rotundity of the earth." I've never thought of it that way - although it makes perfect sense. Another view would be that the "taking" is not instantaneous all over the world - but happens in stages. Again - Christ isn't specific on this detail.
As you know, however, I disagree with you on the timing of the Rapture. My belief is the Rapture will occur at the very end - after the Tribulation - and not before it. Based on the timeline you laid out in your comments - that would make this passage refer to the Rapture. I guess that's why I always saw this passage referring to the "taken" as the believers.
But regardless of our interpretation here - I'll still stick with my closing: I hope we'll all be ready (for whatever happens...).
It is my understanding that the Rapture and the Second Advent are two separate and distinct events. Paul tells us in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 that the Rapture is actually two events in one: (1) “...the dead in Christ shall rise first” and, (2) “then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds.” He tells us in 1Corinthians 15:52 that these two events will occur “in the twinkling of an eye.” Again in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 he tells us we are “to meet the Lord in the air.” He also tells us in 1 Thessalonians 4:16 that it is the Lord who will trigger the Rapture “with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God.” My understanding of “in the twinkling of an eye” is that the events of the Rapture will happen so suddenly, and so quickly that no one will be able to observe them. In other words, the church of Christ, both the dead and the living, will simply vanish.
The description that John gives us of the Second Advent in Revelation 19:11-16 is, however, quite different. According to John “heaven opened” and the Lord, followed by “the armies which were in heaven,” which I believe to be, at least in part, the church of Christ, make their way to earth, all riding upon white horses. And, as both Luke (17:24) and Matthew (24:27) tell us, His coming will be as visible as the lightening and, one must believe, as unmistakable. It will clearly be observed by the entire population of the earth: “and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn...” (Matthew 24:30).
I don’t believe what Luke is describing in 17:34-36, those who are taken, is a description of the Rapture because he makes no mention of the first part of the Rapture, i.e., “the dead in Christ shall rise first.” And it does not fit the context of what has previously been written, i.e., the judgment of God by both a flood and fire and brimstone. Since, I believe, Christ’s judgment of His church will occur in heaven at the Judgment Seat of Christ, it fits with the context of what Luke has written that Christ will judge the ungodly on earth at His return. Those “taken” will not be allowed to enter into the Millennial kingdom. After allowing Satan to control the earth for seven years during the Tribulation one can well imagine how wicked and immoral most of the surviving human population might be. Why would Christ want and/or allow this immoral mass of people to repopulate the earth? More especially since there will be believers who will survive the Tribulation. I believe He will judge the ungodly (which I believe is the point Jesus is making in Luke 17:28-37), just as God judged pre-diluvial and antediluvian man, as well as Sodom and Gomorrah, by removing them and sending them to hell.
As a point of interest, I will here note that both Luke (17:37) and Matthew (24:28) quote Jesus as referring to a gathering of eagles (KJV) wherever the carcase/body is. John tells us in Revelation 19:17-18, at His Second Coming, that an angel will call “all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven... [to] gather...[to] eat the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.” I think it clear that the ungodly will be judged and will not survive to enter the Millennium.
As for the timing of the Rapture, I believe it is the Rapture that triggers the Tribulation. In 2 Thessalonians 2:6-9 Paul speaks to when the anti-Christ will be revealed. “And now ye know what [withholds] that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity [does] already work: only he who now [lets] will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: even him whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders...”
Who then is the “he” that apparently is now restraining the appearance of the anti-Christ? I believe it to be the Holy Spirit. More specifically, I believe it to be the church of Christ indwelled by the Holy Spirit. If the church is both salt and light then it is only when it is removed that the anti-Christ can take control of the world. The Rapture will trigger the Tribulation by removing all believers (and therefore the Holy Spirit): “For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.” Why would God allow the church to remain on earth during the time when He will turn control of the earth over to Satan? I don’t believe He will and my faith is in the promise of God that He has not appointed me to wrath. The Second Advent will end the Tribulation by removing all of the ungodly and bringing the immortal church back to earth.
The Rapture is God’s “last call” to mankind. Those living who have not committed their lives to Christ, and therefore will not take part in the Rapture (if it occurs in their life-time), will have one final opportunity to change their minds. There can be no greater sign from God than the Rapture. It is something only He can orchestrate, and it is clearly described in Scripture. When the church is removed from the earth and millions vanish without a trace, albeit they will have to do it the hard way (by either being martyred or surviving the Tribulation), those remaining will have proof positive that there is salvation in Jesus Christ. But they will have to endure hell on earth to be saved.
Let me add one additional thought about the Rapture and the Second Advent. In Matthew 24:36 Jesus tells us that no one knows when “that day and hour” will be. Was He referring to the Rapture or to the Second Advent? There is, I believe, sufficient information in the Bible about the timing of events in the Tribulation that the Second Coming can be determined with a rather high degree of accuracy, once the Tribulation has begun. In Daniel 12:11, for example, it is written, “And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that [makes] desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.”
If the Rapture is to occur at the end of the Tribulation, as you suggest, then the timing of that event can also be determined with a rather high degree of certainty. If, on the other hand, the Rapture has been “imminent” since Christ ascended into heaven, and I believe it has been, and if the Rapture is to occur before, or actually triggers the Tribulation, then there is no way to determine the timing. Thus, no one can know “that day and hour” and we must do as Jesus tells us in Luke 21:36, “Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.”
It is my belief that believers will “escape” the troubles of the Tribulation by being Raptured prior to the Tribulation, and will “stand before the Son of man” at the Judgment Seat of Christ in heaven while the Tribulation is running it’s course on earth. I believe Jesus gives us this assurance in Revelation 3:10-11, “Because thou has kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.”
Rob thanks for all your comments here. I don't have the time now to counter your positions that I disagree with - plus the fact that I'd like to wait until we get to the verses you quoted until I discuss them in detail.
But for now, let me leave you with a thought:
You talked about the Timing of the Rapture - that Jesus said no one knows (which I complely agree with). You then said that we can know with a high degree of certainty when the end of the Tribulation would be by quoting Daniel. Personally, I believe that all times listed in Daniel (at least in the prophetic/apocalyptic sections) are not be read literally. Therefore, while Daniel specifies 1,290 days, I don't think that means a literal 3 1/2 years. I also don't believe that the Tribulation will be a literal Seven years - which means that we cannot know for sure when it's going to end.
Thanks again.
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